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| What or who is Israel? | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 6 2010, 10:05 AM (309 Views) | |
| Adullam | Jul 6 2010, 10:05 AM Post #1 |
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Gen. 35:9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him. 10And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. 11And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; From the very beginning, God intended for Israel to be both a visible nation AND a congregation of people from the nations....In Hebrew this reads as... goy (a nation) ou-kehal goyim (and a congregation of nations or a church of Gentiles) Kehal can also be translated as "church" (congregation)...goyim can also translated as Gentiles. So Israel is a visible nation AND a church of Gentiles (nations). Of course Israel is also a goy (nation). |
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| Adullam | Jul 6 2010, 10:07 AM Post #2 |
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.....and kings shall come out of thy loins; Israel are they who reign with God. Israel shall rule with Christ in the next age. Israel are kings. Jesus is the King of kings! Jesus is king over Israel. Israel shall rule over the nations with Christ. |
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| Adullam | Jul 6 2010, 10:49 AM Post #3 |
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Let us look at how God chose the development of His plan in Israel. Here are a few passages concerning Ephraim, the son of Joseph, the son of Israel. Gen. 48:17And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head. 18And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head. 19And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations. 20And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh. "a multitude of nations" actually in the Hebrew this reads melo hagoyim or...a fulness of the Gentiles. The verb malé means "to fill". Compare that with... Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Here is "the fulness of the Gentiles" again! the melo hagoyim! All Israel shall be saved! This means that the two aspects or houses of Israel are become one once again and this is through Christ. Edited by Adullam, Jul 6 2010, 10:50 AM.
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| Adullam | Jul 6 2010, 10:57 AM Post #4 |
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So then the Gentile church of Christ is Ephraim Israel, and a part of the Israel of God. We are co-inheritors together with faithful Judah. Ezekiel 37:15 The word of Yahweh came again to me, saying, 37:16 You, son of man, take one stick, and write on it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write on it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 37:17 and join them for you one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. 37:18 When the children of your people shall speak to you, saying, Will you not show us what you mean by these? 37:19 tell them, Thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his companions; and I will put them with it, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in my hand. 37:20 The sticks whereon you write shall be in your hand before their eyes. 37:21 Say to them, Thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, where they are gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 37:22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all; and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all; 37:23 neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will save them out of all their dwelling-places, in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 37:24 My servant David shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my ordinances, and observe my statutes, and do them. 37:25 They shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, in which your fathers lived; and they shall dwell therein, they, and their children, and their children's children, forever: and David my servant shall be their prince for ever. 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. 37:27 My tent also shall be with them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 37:28 The nations shall know that I am Yahweh who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them forevermore. |
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| Adullam | Jul 6 2010, 11:01 AM Post #5 |
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John 10:16 I have other sheep that don't belong to this fold. I must lead these also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock and one shepherd. |
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| Adullam | Jul 7 2010, 09:11 AM Post #6 |
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Look at this verse from John....there is a mystery here. "Therefore Jesus no longer continued to walk publicly among the Jews, but went away from there to the country near the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim; and there He stayed with the disciples." John 11:54 This describes the church momentum shifting to the Gentiles of Ephraim. This is a spiritual passage that speaks much more than a physical location. Do you see this? |
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| Earendel | Jul 9 2010, 12:06 AM Post #7 |
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There is a physical Israel consisting of Hebrews of the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and there is also a spiritual Israel consisting of the same, but includes gentiles who were grafted into the spiritual root after the Lord Jesus ascended on high, and after the feast of Pentecost as per Acts 10. Not ALL references to Israel in the bible refers to the spiritual Israel, and NOT all references to Israel in the bible refers to the physical Israel either. Not all Jews believe, and although they belong to the physical Israel, they do not belong to the spiritual Israel (because of their unbelief). National Israel lost the Spiritual heritage when they were cut off after the resurrection of God's only Son - when they were dispersed during the diaspora - a judgement that lasted almost 2000 years. But God has, in these last days, has brought them back together in the land that He promised to their forefathers...and the day of restoration is at hand. Believing Israel was the called church (or congregation) in the wilderness. The Church/Israel is a spiritual body of called out ones (elected)...The Greek word ekklēsia, literally "assembly, congregation, council", is the traditional term referring to the Christian Church, but we read in scripture this also referred to believing Israel as well. I won't go into it in depth on how gentiles were grafted into the stock of Israel too much with this post as per (Romans 11) as the Apostle Paul wrote about. ...but The "Congregation" aka "Church" aka "Ekklēsia" Is Israel of whom gentiles were grafted in (this is not national unbelieving Israel) but elected saints now consisting of both the Jew first and also the Gentile. And I am not talking about replacement theology, nobody is replacing national Israel unbelieving or otherwise. The Israelites have always been the Church...ALWAYS! The gentiles were grafted into this body, not made a Jew in the flesh, but of the Spirit who gives life to all, for there is no partiality with God. The OT which says and makes referance to the CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS and how that church is called THE CALLED OUT ONES. Israel was called the Church, before the gentiles were grafted in - this is to say that the Church (the Spiritual Israel) did not start on Pentecost. The Church received power for Godly living and testimony on Pentecost - It is through the righteousness of God that the free gift of the Holy Spirit is given, even to us, who through obedience to the faith in Christ Jesus are made righteous by His shed blood...in that He took away our sins, and in the absence of sin the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled; therefore, the Holy Spirit could come. It was not until sin was removed (through the cross of Christ), and the righteous requirements of the law were fulfilled (absence of sin), that the Holy Spirit could come. For what the law could not do(written law), in that it was weak through the flesh (because we could not keep the law through the flesh), God (did) (by)sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh (took away the sins - so that power for righteous living could be given): That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (absence of sin through the blood of Christ), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body (power for righteous living), you will live. Rom 8:13 (emphasis mine) Paul stated in Romans 11 that the Gentiles have been GRAFTED INTO THIS BODY, therefore making BOTH in the SAME BODY AND SPIRITUAL ROOTS. Paul went on to teach in Ephesians that that there is NOW NO DIVIDING WALL between the Jew or the Gentile, FOR WE ARE NOW ONE BODY. For you who may be reading this post and are not familiar with Pauls writing in Ephesians, I challenge you to read Ephesians and NOTE IN PATICULAR verses 2:11-22. You will find the following statements: 1. The Gentiles (at one time) were aliens from the commonweath of Israel. 2. The Gentiles (at one time) were called uncircumcision who had NO HOPE being, without Christ in this World. 3. The Gentiles were (at one time) strangers from the covenants of promise. 4. Jesus Christ brought us ALL NEAR BY HIS BLOOD and made peace. 5. Jesus ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances in order to MAKE ONE NEW MAN [BODY OR CHURCH] 6. Jesus reconciled BOTH BY HIS CROSS....PUTING away the condemnation against all people. 7. ALL OF US, JEW AND GENTILE are according to the Apostle Paul, [Who was writing SCRIPTURE],.......... FELLOW-CITIZENS IN THE.....HOUSEHOLD OF GOD. The Apostle Paul now goes on in Chapter 3 to say some VERY IMPORTANT WORDS. He NOW MENTIONS THE DISPENSATION OF THE GRACE OF GOD, and how this Mystery was the fact that the Gentiles should be FELLOW HEIRS, AND OF THE SAME BODY, AND PARTAKERS OF HIS PROMISE IN CHRIST BY THE GOSPEL. This fully sums it up....THERE IS ONLY ONE CHURCH/ISRAEL of whom the gentiles were grafted in. National Israel today (unbelieving as they are), is not the church (spiritual Israel) or the called out ones, but if all Jews in Israel suddenly accepted the Lord Jesus they would be grafted back into their own branch (the spiritual Israel), ...And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you (gentile) were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?Romans 11:23-24 The book of Revelations in not about national Israel, but about believing Israel (of whom gentiles were grafted in). The Kingdom will be restored to national Israel when Jesus returns and rules as King over the nations from Jerusalem, but then there will not be an unbelieving Jew in Israel at that time. Imagine all of the Apostles and the 12 Patriarchs, Moses, Elijah, King David, Enoch...all walking the streets of Jerusalem together. Do you think there will be any unbelieving Jews in Israel in that day with these guys walking around? NOW PAY ATTENTION National Israel today, is a direct fulfillment of prophecy of Jews coming into there own land...but only a remnant will be saved. It is a prophecy marker and a timeline to us who believe, and to show us that we are in the very last of days...that this generation will see the coming of the Lord. The nation of Israel today is as a sign of the end of this age, and that the Lord Jesus is about to return. (the full number of the gentiles (grafted into spiritual Israel/Church) is almost come in). There will be a great falling away of Adam's race and many in what is now supposedly called the church, but from the ruins of what was once a "Grand Old Mansion" will arise a new one much more glorious then the former, even as the Prophet Haggai has said: The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.” Antichrist will come first before the rebuilding of the "Grand Old Mansion" and deceive many, but not all. A great revival will occur on earth such as not have been since time began, so great will be this move of the Spirit of God. Time is so short now, and it is time for those who are sitting on the fence with their Christianity to sit up and take notice to what is coming, because of day of judgement is approaching...time to get ready. The days of the Great Tribulation will soon be upon us. I believe there is a biblical purpose for (national Israel) today, and that is the direct fulfillment of Ezekiel 36-37 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2036-37&version=NKJV The full restoration national Israel is still pending, and will be completed AFTER the first resurrection and AFTER the battle of Armageddon when our Lord Jesus restores ALL things. Israel as a nation today is a sign of the end of the age of the time also known as "the time of the gentiles". The Lord Jesus has said this and also reaffirmed by the Apostle Paul. The time of the Gentiles is almost complete...that is to say "the fulness of the Gentiles is almost come in" Did not our Lord Jesus even say: "Jerusalem shall be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." (Luke 21:24) This is why Israel is a nation today, because the prophecy is fulfilled and this time has now come...we are at the gateway to the time known as the Great Tribulation and the day of the Lord...and time is running out. The existence of the nation of Israel in this last hour, is a prophecy marker about the imminent return of the Lord Jesus the Messiah of Israel. As the Apostle Paul has written: For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel (the Jews) until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ........Until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in....and then what? Here's what: “ The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27 ...so the Jew will be grafted back into their own Branch (spiritual Israel) as a nation There is a remnant of Israel that will be saved: 1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Rom 11:1-5 One day ALL Israel will say: "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord"! How do I know this? This is how: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’” Luke 13:34-35 See, they will say this, even the Lord Jesus has said this, and then they will seek Him and shall mourn for Him in anguish and deep repentance as a nation. God forgives them for all their sins and for their backsliding, and remembers them no more; He washes them in the Blood of the Lamb so that they will be clean. God allows the foundation of repentance, and allows a broken and contrite and humble spirit within them...so that they may repent, so that they may return to the God of their salvation fully, with a pure heart, and with clean and undefiled and holy hands - for the Lord will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon Him whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one who mourns for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Is this not written in Zechariah the prophet? Unbelief in Israel among the Jews will be cut off soon enough...a great and a terrible day - a time of Jacob's trouble... Zechariah 13:8-9 (New King James Version) 8 And it shall come to pass in all the land,” Says the LORD, “ That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it: 9 I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, ‘This is My people’; And each one will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’” Seek of the Lord mercy for others in a gentle spirit, and consider yourself too, so that you are not ensnared by the wicked one. God has a purpose for the nation of Israel today, not to replace His spiritual Israel, which is His church, but to graft back into the Branch the unbelieving Jew, back into their own Branch (the Spiritual Israel)...and I believe this time will come during the Great Tribulation which is before us, even as the prophet Jeremiah has said: Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble, But he shall be saved out of it. |
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| Adullam | Aug 8 2010, 10:14 AM Post #8 |
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Israel according to God is the "One new man". A man is composed of 3 parts. The flesh, the soul and the spirit. Judah is according to the flesh Ephraim is the spirit But there remains the soul. So both Judah and Ephraim are to press into and possess the land. This is by the Spirit which is why Ephraim must lead the way. We, as Gentiles must possess the entire land (the soul) in order to stir Judah to jealousy. Judah will come in when he sees that we have the "fulness" of Christ in us. This is the true "fulness" of the Gentiles" Ephraim was prophesied to become the "fulness of the Gentiles."This is often made to signify a numerical goal. However, we all are vessels, either of honour or of shame. When we have the requisite vessel capacity for the glory of God upon the nations, then the "fulness" of the nations will be complete. If the fulness were only numbers wouldn't 2 billion Christian adherents be enough to move the Jews to jealousy???? :-) <>< John |
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